tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post3890446974788310920..comments2023-11-02T05:16:59.191-04:00Comments on Briques du Neige: Quoi!? (les yeux bridés)OlmanFeelyushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17521657876810568251noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-90547508806036414132009-09-09T16:26:36.461-04:002009-09-09T16:26:36.461-04:00Yeah. That is what I just said.Yeah. That is what I just said.Philippe Laurichessenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-33611090978448869272009-06-15T15:03:02.997-04:002009-06-15T15:03:02.997-04:00In France "asiatique" isn't connoted...In France "asiatique" isn't connoted pejoratively, it just means related to Far East. "Oriental" just means related to East. OTOH "un bridé" is a racist expression to call someone of Asian descent.<br /><br />I wish Anglo-Saxon and French people would be more aware of the hundreds of "faux amis" and seemingly equivalent words in both language. It's especially important for words that have been imported in recent history, where more often than not, words are imported not just to fill a vocabulary gap but to provide a nuance that wasn't available before. "Réaliser" (from English to French) and "déjà vu" (from French to English) are examples of this process. Assuming that the connotation of one word in one language is going to map exactly the same in another language is dumb, duh.<br /><br />Oh by the way, l'academie francaise is quite a big joke. It pretends to govern language rules and help solve confusion in French language, but all it does is take note of cultural/linguistic changes that it doesn't control. French speakers will continue to make French a living language and Academie will go on pretending they keep it civilized... Is anyone using "courriel" in real life ?boulethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713530459856030736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-15721761758345169372008-08-22T18:18:00.000-04:002008-08-22T18:18:00.000-04:00No one says 'Orientaux' (not 'orientales') in Fren...No one says 'Orientaux' (not 'orientales') in French. 'Oriental' as an adjective in French and simply means 'east' (like 'east coast' for ex). Strange ? This is because English and French are two different languages. That might seem obvious, but English-speakers (like you) obviously do not get it still, cf. your comment quoted above. We say 'Asiatique' in French because it's the equivalent of 'Asian' in English. Your 'gripe' with the use of 'Asiatique' in French comes from a simple ignorance of the French language.<BR/><BR/>As for 'yeux bridés,' regardless of whether Asian Francophones find it offensive or not, you have to realize, once again, that French and English are two different language with different rules (what a concept !), and French is, on the whole, much less PC than English. Like it or not, that's how it is, and I'm not saying it's "all right" (or not). That said, this discussion would be less futile and more productive if English-speakers with little to no knowledge of French would refrain from offering half-baked opinions like why Asians are "still" called 'Asiatiques' in French. All it does, in the end, is make you sound like an idiot to a French-speaker such as myself.<BR/><BR/>Philippe LaurichesseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-57055867220869406592007-06-05T18:46:00.000-04:002007-06-05T18:46:00.000-04:00The slur is far more revealing when you look at it...The slur is far more revealing when you look at it in context. Maybe "slanty eyes" isn't offensive in French, but the comment in the context of Boisclair's strange nativist world view is far more disturbing. <BR/><BR/>"The reality is these countries are not just working to create jobs in sweatshops. When I was in Boston, where I spent a year, I was surprised to see that on campus about one-third of the students doing their bachelor's degrees had slanting eyes.<BR/>"These are not people going to work in sweatshops. They are people who will later become engineers and managers who create richness. There is a ferocious competition happening in the world today. What I would like to do is equip you and equip Quebec to face (the challenge)."Leafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01162685333594550553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-72995512658631522562007-03-20T07:15:00.000-04:002007-03-20T07:15:00.000-04:00I'm surprised to hear they would still say 'les or...I'm surprised to hear they would still say 'les orientales' in Montreal. In the US, 'oriental' is considered more than old-fashioned, it is considered pejorative. I firmly believe in referring to groups of people by the terms they prefer. For years, gays had to put up with people insisting 'gay' already meant something and it didn't mean homosexual. Finally, such people seem much more than old-fashioned. Personally, I like the term 'Asian' just because it is so ambiguous and means different things in different countries or even to different people. Technically, it could include Australians and Israelis. I figure if one doesn't know enough to say whether the person is from China or Korea or wherever, 'Asian' should be good enough until you find out more. Most of the people referred to this way are Canadians or Americans anyway. That was no doubt the case for Boisclair.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-2385766051996021362007-03-19T20:16:00.000-04:002007-03-19T20:16:00.000-04:00And Olman raised an interesting point in his post:...And Olman raised an interesting point in his post:<BR/>"it's not the person who is saying it who decides if it's okay or not. It's the one labeled who decides."<BR/><BR/>So are all franco-asians really ok with being labeled 'les yeux brides'? <BR/><BR/>As an anglo-asian, I was extremely surprised to learn that the majority of francophones consider this term inoffensive, even harmless. A bit ironic considering that the french are generally so language-sensitve.<BR/><BR/>Likewise, my francophone coworkers were, in turn, surprised to learn that the english equivalent 'the slanted eyes' was considered derogatory. For francophones, 'les yeux brides' is like calling a person 'black' or 'white', like in english. Or like calling the Irish 'red-haired'. Is there a french term 'les cheveux rouge' for the Irish? I'd like to know.<BR/><BR/>My theory is that the problem is in the french language itself. In its adherence to traditional form and its stubborn refusal for spontaneity, french lacks the dynamism of the english language and its ability to keep up with the times. I'm sorry, but it does. Just look at the lasting power of L'Academie Francaise. <BR/><BR/>Here's another example. Why in Montreal is it still so common to say 'les orientales' and 'les asiatiques' to describe persons of east asian descent? I get this all the time. In english, the terms 'oriental' and 'asiatic' are remnants of an euro-colonial past, and are considered long out-of-date (and out of fashion). <BR/><BR/>So Boisclair was definitely onto something when he said that whether or not this is considered derogatory should be left to the linguists to decide, because I do believe this boils down to a language-cultural issue. <BR/><BR/>There lies the bigger question of who shapes what? Does language shape how a society regards 'the other'? Or does the evolution of language depend on what is considered acceptable in society? <BR/><BR/>Can a society be open-minded and contemporary if their language is still steeped in rigidity and old-world views?meezlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09064532853057054875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-24076857849113098912007-03-18T22:04:00.000-04:002007-03-18T22:04:00.000-04:00Here and elsewhere, French-speaking Asians have ma...Here and elsewhere, French-speaking Asians have made it clear they see nothing offensive in the term. Obviously, it loses something in its literal translation, and no doubt that, as well as translations of surrounding parts of the speech, have led to perhaps an unjustified criticism in English. I still think the implication that one can distinquish a Canadian or American from a foreigner by how they look is a worrisome one. Just look at how Canadians with Japanese heritage (even those born in Canada) were treated compared to those with German heritage (even those born in Germany) during WWII, and one can see what can happen when one jumps to conclusions based on people looking "different". If Boisclair doesn't understand this, he should try to learn about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-29753516388074440162007-03-17T18:34:00.000-04:002007-03-17T18:34:00.000-04:00Bridé seems to be a word that is only used in the ...Bridé seems to be a word that is only used in the phrase "yeux bridés". The definition in the Larousse is "yeux aux paupières étirées latéralement" which means "eyes whose lids stretch laterally". So it doesn't really mean slanted, more like pulled tight.<BR/><BR/>Brider, the verb that it comes from means to rein in (for horses), or to restrain the power of an engine, or clothes that fit too tightly.<BR/><BR/>I would love to see the etymology of the word bridé. I would be very surprised if it didn't come from France's colonial past.OlmanFeelyushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17521657876810568251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-59372156877992010322007-03-17T14:58:00.000-04:002007-03-17T14:58:00.000-04:00That's interesting that it is not considered offen...That's interesting that it is not considered offensive in French. Is this true even for Asians whose eyes in no way could be described as slanted (some Indians or others)? I think of Asians as a pretty diverse group, what with East and West and South Asia, and don't think all their eyes look similar. Do all French speaking Asians identify with the term yeux brides, even if their eyes are much rounder than Boisclair's?<BR/> <BR/>The point I found more offensive in Boisclair's speech was the assumption that those with yeux brides were foreigners. How do Canadians with Asian heritage feel about that? Presumably many in the Harvard class were Americans even if Boisclair thought their eyes looked non-American.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-33795957605084495902007-03-16T19:06:00.000-04:002007-03-16T19:06:00.000-04:00Ça c'est exactement ma pointe. Dans la langue fra...Ça c'est exactement ma pointe. Dans la langue française il n'y aurait aucune connotation raciste, mais ça ne veut pas dire que c'est pas néanmoins une terme raciste et offensive. C'est toujours acceptable à référer à une groupe ethnique par leurs characteristiques physiques? Ce serait acceptable d'appeler les Juifs "les nef crochés" ou les Africans "Les peaux noirs"? Il aurait été acceptable si Boisclair a fait référence aux étudiants jaunes?<BR/><BR/>Aux années 60s aux EU, il y avait des restos s'appallaient "Nigger Charlies" Croyez-vous que les Africains-Americains trouvait ça correct?<BR/><BR/>Il existe toujours dans la culture Québécoise les idées peut-être héritées de la France Coloniale. C'est ben temps qu'elle s'en débarasse.OlmanFeelyushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17521657876810568251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8777096.post-2574789815737305152007-03-16T14:08:00.000-04:002007-03-16T14:08:00.000-04:00Wow, wow, on se calme le pompon!En français, "yeux...Wow, wow, on se calme le pompon!<BR/><BR/>En français, "yeux bridés" n'a aucune, AUCUNE connotation raciste. Tu vois ça avec le point de vue d'un anglophone, mais je t'assure, ça n'a RIEN à voir avec dire "slanted eyes people". Gee, there's even a restaurant in Montreal called "les Bridés" and no one finds it offensive. Ask any French-speaking Asian (like myself), you'll see that no one finds this offensive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com